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Thread: Noise/Valve Tick?

  1. Top | #13
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    Bump this up again. Here's what I know:

    - It does get louder/speed up, when I rev the motor.
    - It does not get quieter when the clutch is depressed.

    The above steers me away from thinking it has to do with the clutch (TO Bearing, ect.)

    Anyone have another opinion on it? I'm slowly hearing horror stories of 02 Ecos blowing the timing chain, and that worries me. I'm planning on getting the updated timing chain tensioner for it asap, anyone think it could be slack in the timing chain that could cause the noise?
    -2002 Pontiac Grand Am SE Coupe

  2. Top | #14
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    My '03 Cavalier has the exact same problem. I've heard it could be a timing belt or chain tensioner, but nothing conclusive. I'll post the video I took of mine below.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs2SkIowmwQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs2SkIowmwQ[/ame]

    So far it hasn't gotten any worse, but I'm scared to leave it go too long. Wish I had a definitive answer...

    -Shawn

  3. Top | #15
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    I posted an anwser on your video.




    How much work would I be looking at to replace both the tensioner and oiler, and whats involved? I only have 65K KM's on mine right now, but the sooner I get the new parts in, the better!!! I really don't want to have to drop 900 bucks on a Ecotec with 120K + KM's on it.
    -2002 Pontiac Grand Am SE Coupe

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    it sounds like you timing chain, or a rocker that has come out, those things come in a kit with all new timing components,along with the updated oiler, and its cheaper than a new motor for sure. since your not experienced get a shop to do it, it will be money well spent if thats your trouble. if not done correctly you'll just be turning the engine into a grenade.

    take off the cam cover(big thing on top) and look around for something that doesn't look like the rest.

    disconnect the negative on your battery to start you off, and remember DO NOT try to start the car with the cover off.

    take out the 4 bolts in the middle of the black piece, once they out pull straight up on the black piece, be careful its still attached by wires on one end, you do not need to disconnect the wires and i recommend against it. just set it to the side as best you can to the right.

    then take out all the little bolts around the cover and the 4 in the middle. there is also a ground strap on the right (driver side) of the engine on the cam cover just below the fuel lines. then you should be able to lift that cover off, it shouldn't take He-Man strength to to it either, if it seems really hard to move double check for a bolt thats still in. once that done it should look like this.



    then look for broken or out of place items, if they are out of place it will be obvious no need to poke hard on things.

    also you can remove the top chain guide and see if there is slack in the chain, there should be none to very, very little. (bottom center, only two bolts holding it in, and DO NOT tighten any of the little caps in there holding the camshafts) don't try to fix anything in there, this is so you go to the mechanic armed with info, and well hey you learn something in the process. if you see something you think is wrong get us some art to look at, not a video. if your going to leave the car for any length of time put the cover back on, you don't have to button it up, but you wanna keep dirt out of there. you should be able to get the cover off and be poking around in about 30min it being your first time, and don't let people tell you "oh i can do it in this time", its not how fast you do it, its doing it right that counts!


    .
    Last edited by Cinpro; 07-05-2009 at 05:21 PM. Reason: clairifcation
    http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/Cinpro/jokercopy2.jpg

    It's not what you buy,it's what you build!

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    I'll update tonight or tomorrow, as soon as I get a chance I'll pop it off.
    -2002 Pontiac Grand Am SE Coupe

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    We took the camshaft cover off and looked around. We also removed the timing chain cover and found that there is some extra slack. We've ordered a replacement tensioner, which should be in tomorrow for pickup, if needed.

    I purchased a Haynes Repair Guide, but I don't see much on the order of oilers. Do you have any suggestions or comments concerning repairing, viewing it?

    Thanks,
    Shawn

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    the oiler is the black thing one the left that it appears I'm pointing at.....

    http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/Cinpro/jokercopy2.jpg

    It's not what you buy,it's what you build!

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    Thanks! We removed the tensioner and it pretty much fell apart when it was removed. We also found some small grooves at the top of the timing chain guard cover, and assuming it was due from the slack. I'll keep updating our progress.

    -Shawn

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    Howdy- K. Funk here, and Bailesie was left logged in on my computer.

    Anyways, the car is at my house, and I've done timing belts/chains on lots of other cars successfully, so I'm helping out with stuff. This is my first time with the Ecotec, though.

    I'm wondering what the typical failure mode is on the tensioner. When I took it out, it seemed to all fall apart easily. I want to know if its supposed to do that. I put it all back together and measured it as the manual said, and it was 72mm which is the proper spec. But I'm just wondering about the little nub on the piston that the holding pin lies on (which you have to force it down onto). It seems like if that nub is worn down, the holding pin could easily be pushed over the nub and the tensioner would be free to bounce back and forth at will, and hence it would fall right apart when I took it out. It seems like it should require some force from myself and a screwdriver to pop that apart.

    As for the oiler, we haven't yet taken apart the bottom cover or removed the motor mount to check that stuff out, and not sure if we need to do that. We're thinking that the old tensioner shouldn't be trusted anyways, and we could try a new one in there, double-check that the timing chain didn't jump a tooth when I removed the tensioner (the cams spun a little but doubt it jumped off any. I still want to check marks on harmonic balancer and sprockets to see if they line and rotate by hand several times, and use dipstick tube in #1 plug hole for triple-check of TDC), bolt the top back together, and fire it up to see if the noise is gone.

    As for the oiler down there on the bottom, it appears there's oil pooled up in the timing area so it doesn't look like its particularly starved for oil. The sprockets aren't really pointy so I doubt they're worn much. I'm thinkin we should run some engine flush thru it to clean some gunky oil out, and perhaps that'll help prevent or clean any oiler gunking.

    what do ya think?

    K. Funk

  10. Top | #22
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    I think your playing with fire with that oiler, they are known to fail, it was a big issue for awhile. if that chain goes your looking at severe damage. you can get the Cloyes kit for a good price at rockauto.com, it has everything including the tensioner and updated oiler. if you replace the chain, do all the gears with it.

    theres no need to remove the motor mount to open up the timing cover. just remove the front tire and go to work. there all the bolts going around the outside edge, one long one just below the waterpump cover (it has 4 bolts you do not need to remove) and the belt tensioner. the use a large screw driver with some tape on the end to pry it from the bottom right.


    what did you guys pay for the tensioner alone?
    http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/Cinpro/jokercopy2.jpg

    It's not what you buy,it's what you build!

  11. Top | #23
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    The parts store down the street said $43 for the tensioner, and it'd be in at 8am tomorrow. I like RockAuto, but sometimes its worth it to just get the parts quickly without the hassle of ordering online. I'd like to get the ole '74 BMW back into my garage soon and Bailesie back on the road (its his only car)

    I can go ahead and get that bottom cover and check stuff out if its that easy, and see if the store can get the oiler in for a reasonable price. I've already got the front wheel and plastic cover off, just so we could access that crank bolt to rotate engine. But I'm gonna have to remove that crank bolt, right? It's an automatic, so all I know is to use the ghetto starter trick to remove it since I don't have an impact wrench handy. Need a special puller for harmonic balancer? I've got a two-jaw here, but should I borrow a three-jaw or special puller with right threads to get in the threaded holes? How am I gonna hold it in place to re-torque it properly? I haven't checked the manual for that part yet, if there is a way. I used a strap wrench on the balancer for the last auto. subaru I did, but I don't see a way of doing that here.
    Last edited by Bailesie; 07-07-2009 at 08:47 PM.

  12. Top | #24
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    Had the valve cover off when i painted it, so I checked out what I could. The chain was bar-tight, so what's that an indication of?
    -2002 Pontiac Grand Am SE Coupe

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