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EcotecFiero
06-24-2008, 10:15 PM
Ok,

This is my last * with the LE5/L61 Hybrid.


The LE5 uses a Hall-Effect Sensor.
It has 3 wires:
1.CKP SIG
2.Low Ref
3.5v Ref

The L61 uses a VR Type Sensor.
CKP Sensor
CKP Return Sensor

Now, I hooked a Oscilloscope up to the LE5 sensor and am not getting anything from the sensor. I have 5volts going to it, CKP wire going to the Oscilloscope and the Low Ref grounded.

Does that sound right? Ive had the CKP to the ECM and the others stayed the same and I cannot get a crank signal.

Now will the VR L61 sensor read the 60-2 crank? The L61 uses that 7x which obviously isnt as clear as the 60-2.

Saying I use the VR sensor, can I just ground the CKP Return, and use the CKP to the Oscilloscope to get the signal wave?

I know this is a bit more technical than most questions but Im running outta options, I can either explain the tech stuff to you car guys or explain the ecotec stuff to the tech guys.

ecotec88fiero
06-24-2008, 11:08 PM
Are you using a know good part?
Sounds like its hooked up right as long as your settings on the scope are right.
The PCM may have some decode circuitry in it depending on if the hall sensor is "really" a hall sensor.
The VR sensor will pulse with any ferrous object it comes close to, so yes it will produce some kind of signal. If you look at the diameter of the VR sensor its pretty large. The 60-2 cranks notches are much smaller than the old 7x crank which means that the VR sensor may not see the resolution of that reluctor wheel. I can't think of any VR sensors used with anything over 36 tooth crank wheels for just that reason, they use hall sensors because they are much more accurate.
Remember that this just gives a AC voltage, which has to be converted to a digital signal for computers.
Also you have to make sure your air gap is correct.

As far as your scope settings, what are you using. Normally you should have both wires going to the scope for a VR sensor cause since its an AC voltage you are looking at you need your high and low.

EcotecFiero
06-24-2008, 11:29 PM
I havent tried the VR sensor as my MS unit would need more modifications to use the VR.

The Hall sensor (LE5) only has 26k miles on it and I have no reason to think its bad.

ecotec88fiero
06-24-2008, 11:55 PM
Murphy's law man!
If it could go wrong, it will.
But before you buy another....make sure you have everything hooked up correctly

-MD- Enforcer
06-25-2008, 07:33 AM
I use to design Variable reluctance, and hall effect sensors everyday at work...till that part of the company was sold off.
Click Here (http://www.thermotion.com/Madison_Electric/Products/products.html)
They will have their own website soon.

I believe if I remember correctly....you have everything set up right. Is the scope set to auto. You might be way off in your settings. the air gap is only probably .005-.040" of an inch for the Vr sensor, and maybe at best up to .075" for the hall.


On a side not. There is a company that sells 7x trigger wheels that can be made to bolt to the crank pulley, and you can read them from there...after adapters are made to hold the sensor and all.

If I remember correctly Megasquirt doesn't like the VR sensors, and does like Hall effect sensors. It also likes 30 or more counts I believe so I would try and use the LE5 sensor, and trigger wheel.

EcotecFiero
06-25-2008, 10:28 AM
Ive only had the Hall Sensor on the scope. This is kind of a last resort I am doing trying to dig thru and find my problem, ive been working on this for a LONG time.

Yea Ive had the scope set on auto, its been a while since ive used one but I think I have it down.

MS doesnt like VR sensors which is why I dont want to have to use the L61 sensor.

I dont have any reason to think the air gap is wrong as its in the block in the stock configuration.

EcotecFiero
06-25-2008, 10:21 PM
anyone else?

DaFlyinSkwirl
07-19-2008, 03:15 PM
the new ecotec sensors aren't analog, they're digital (i remember reading this in a sheet for the new engines)

this may be part of the problem.

EcotecFiero
07-19-2008, 03:38 PM
I got the hall sensor working, it needs a high pull-up resistor for it to work. Its much higher than standard Hall-effect ive seen and worked with which is why it threw me off so much.

I still need the crank angle for the 60-2 wheel :D

DaFlyinSkwirl
07-22-2008, 03:27 AM
anyway you could find out if the LSJ sensor is VR or hall effect?

I've been researching the topic since coming across this thread, and I'd much rather use a hall effect than a VR sensor.

LSJ sensor only has two prongs, so I'm lead to believe its a VR...

?

levelzero
07-22-2008, 04:54 AM
If you're going megasquirt why not just run the ford 4edis? Not to derail the thread but seems like the path of least resistance.

DaFlyinSkwirl
07-22-2008, 01:38 PM
because the EDIS uses a 36 tooth wheel, and the LSJ has a 60-2 wheel.

EcotecFiero
07-22-2008, 05:09 PM
If you're going megasquirt why not just run the ford 4edis? Not to derail the thread but seems like the path of least resistance.

Plus its the PITA of making a bracket on the pulley and for the sensor. Plus I dont like ford :D. I have Buick, Pontiac, Chevy, VW, and Dodge parts on it tho ;)

EcotecFiero
07-22-2008, 05:10 PM
anyway you could find out if the LSJ sensor is VR or hall effect?

I've been researching the topic since coming across this thread, and I'd much rather use a hall effect than a VR sensor.

LSJ sensor only has two prongs, so I'm lead to believe its a VR...

?

VR, my hall-effect has 3 wires. My VR (off the L61) has 2. You can test it with a multimeter.

levelzero
07-23-2008, 08:10 PM
because the EDIS uses a 36 tooth wheel, and the LSJ has a 60-2 wheel.

I realize that but the 36 wheels are really easy to get and the megasquirt spark system was designed around this dis system so it works quite well.


Plus its the PITA of making a bracket on the pulley and for the sensor. Plus I dont like ford :D. I have Buick, Pontiac, Chevy, VW, and Dodge parts on it tho ;)

Well the fab work can be tricky depending on the tools you have. I agree on th ford note, but I also believe in the path of least resistance :)

EcotecFiero
07-24-2008, 01:42 PM
Well I like to find the hardest path, blindfold myself and spin around 1000 times then go down that path ;)

We are looking into ditching the 60-2 setup and converting it back to a GM DIS setup, Im sick of having it running, then starting it the next morning and having something COMPLETELY different happen with it.

DaFlyinSkwirl
07-24-2008, 06:53 PM
^details please.

DaFlyinSkwirl
07-24-2008, 07:54 PM
researching the eMS pro and reading the booklet a bit more, it (apparently) really is vastly superior to MS..

the board in my ECU is labeled as "MegaSquirt v3.8" which I can't even find info on the 3.8 board.

it runs MS extra (aka MSnS) firmware.

apparently I can pipe in a VR source or a Hall source for the crank position sensor. The board has a VR circuit built into it (ie. no translation device needed for an analog to digital signal).

I'm getting very anxious to just hook the damn thing up and get my engine running. I decided that if the VR sensor on the LSJ is good for OEM, then it should be good enough for the eMS pro.

but i digress, this is all speculation. until I wire the thing up and give it a try I won't know for sure.

EcotecFiero
07-24-2008, 10:24 PM
^details please.

The engine had been not running good at all, misfires constantly, timing seemed to be either WAY retarded or way advance, with a timing light it seemed we could not get it on at all, varying one tooth at a time would cause the motor to bitch and moan like we were advancing it like 90 degrees. I COULD keep going but its seems to be extremely hard on the motor.

I'll be posting pics as soon as Im finished, hopefully within a few hours.