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j0n
03-28-2007, 06:07 PM
This project probably won't go down at all, as much as I'd like it to...but it's a fun concept so what the hell.

I currently daily drive a '93 4-door automatic grandma-edition cavalier with the anemic 2.2litre i-4. I've always wanted to turn it into a sleeper but never had another daily driver or the cash to go through with it, but just in case my new job ends up paying well and I get bored of the camaro let's get it out there...

If i were to go the sleeper route with the car I've narrowed it down to 2 choices. A 2000+ 3400 v6 or an 03+ eco. If i did the v6 I'd probably go with spray, and if i did the eco it'd get boost. In either case I'd keep the automatic.

The 3400 would be a great platform due to the fact that it bolts in the factory motor mounts, retains the factory transmission, and factory wiring harness. I'd need to research what it would take to upgrade the transmission in order to handle the power. Another issue is tuning, as i'd be rebuilding the bottom end with forged rods/pistons, dropping the compression a little bit, and doing a p/p on the heads. It would get an aftermarket camshaft as well. I have no knowledge of any tuning software available for the old 2.8 cars. After it was all said and done it'd get a new torque converter matched to the dyno graph, and a bottle in the trunk.

Now if I were to go the ecotec route I had a few ideas. One would be to graft the eco wiring harness to the 2nd gen body harness and do nothing but the gmpp blower and gm reflash along with an aftermarket torque converter in the stock(eco) trans. The only issues i see would be engine/trans mounts. This would not be the quickest option, but it seems to be fairly simple, and would most likely be the most reliable.

Another eco configuration would be the turbo route, which would call for a rebuild with some quality rods/pistons, p/p head, and some aftermarket boost cams. The turbo "kit" would be built by yours truly with a goal of ~400 whp. This setup could also be grafted to the 2nd gen body harness, and would be tuned either using HPT or I could learn about megasquirt and try to get it tuned that way. My final issue here would be the transmission, as from what I've read, the eco trannies are junk(does anyone know the long and short of rebuilding an auto to handle more power???)

So yea thats a brief look into the mind of j0n and his daydreaming. All thoughts/comments welcome.

EDIT: just another thing, while i like the eco i don't know shit about it, whereas i'd be much more comfortable with a 60* v6 with a single camshaft and pushrods

cheesecake
03-28-2007, 06:27 PM
well because this is an ecotec forum im going to say ecotec. but if you cought me on a ga gt site i would say 3400.

j0n
03-28-2007, 06:45 PM
well because this is an ecotec forum im going to say ecotec. but if you cought me on a ga gt site i would say 3400.

Well yea that's what i expected...im just hoping this will spark some good discussion regarding the issues i outlined

cheesecake
03-28-2007, 07:56 PM
i say go for the v6 its better suitable for the car

sayno2vtec
03-28-2007, 09:39 PM
Well if you went the v6 route wouldnt you have to fab up a sub frame. Everyone w/ the 3800 swap had to fab a sub frame. Anywho def. v6 and 3400 is sick on boost also mayn. Thats what I want to do but I dont have a donor car to drive while I do the swap. But the 60*v6 is like the ecotec of v6's.

j0n
03-29-2007, 02:48 AM
Well if you went the v6 route wouldnt you have to fab up a sub frame. Everyone w/ the 3800 swap had to fab a sub frame. Anywho def. v6 and 3400 is sick on boost also mayn. Thats what I want to do but I dont have a donor car to drive while I do the swap. But the 60*v6 is like the ecotec of v6's.

2.8, 3.1, 3.4, 3100, and 3400 are all identical externally so they all bolt to each other's engine mounts. I read a site where a guy pulled his 2.2 for a 3.1 and it worked with the stock mounts which leads me to believe that a 3400 would also fit with the stock mounts.

A 3800 is a COMPLETELY different animal and would require lots of fabrication to fit due to the fact that it is a 90* v6 and is just physically larger, not to mention it shares nothing with any engine that was ever installed in a 2nd gen

Fat Tony
03-29-2007, 03:01 AM
go with a turbo 3400 route. 8psi of boost on those things on a stock motor 350hp :)

j0n
03-29-2007, 03:40 AM
go with a turbo 3400 route. 8psi of boost on those things on a stock motor 350hp :)

yeaaaa i was thinkin about that...any idea on tuning software? or a transmission that can handle that kinda power? i dunno how durable the 4t45e's are

maven
03-29-2007, 08:54 AM
60v6 is a great engine swap for the 2nd gen Cavys, especially since its all bolt in. youll get more torque from a 6 also. Youll need the same mods to the trans no matter what 350hp engine you use so that shouldnt even be a consideration, what should though is the fact that the ECO needs a new trans, and that trans is completely electically controlled.

EcotecFiero
03-29-2007, 11:52 AM
Wait maybe I am confused but is the 2000+ 3400 your talking about a OHV or the DOHC motor?

maven
03-29-2007, 12:30 PM
The 3400 is OHV.

the DOHC 3.4L "X" engine(rpo LQ1) was last used in 97(some say 98)

The X engine was an oversized, underpowered, lump that mustered little more than the OHV 3.4L did, and had the achilles heel of a timing belt and multiple timing belt idler pulleys which were prone to failure. I do like working on 'em though.

j0n
03-29-2007, 05:11 PM
The 3400 is OHV.

the DOHC 3.4L "X" engine(rpo LQ1) was last used in 97(some say 98)

The X engine was an oversized, underpowered, lump that mustered little more than the OHV 3.4L did, and had the achilles heel of a timing belt and multiple timing belt idler pulleys which were prone to failure. I do like working on 'em though.

what he said...minus the whole working on them thing...i hate dem pieces o shit!

Fat Tony
03-31-2007, 01:16 PM
the 2.2 ohv trans aparently bolts up to the 3400ohv.

j0n
04-01-2007, 01:02 AM
the 2.2 ohv trans aparently bolts up to the 3400ohv.

I actually just read that...makes me consider it even more! Anyone know where/how i can get mine built up to handle any power?

ilterzo84
04-01-2007, 08:32 PM
The 3400 is OHV.

the DOHC 3.4L "X" engine(rpo LQ1) was last used in 97(some say 98)

The X engine was an oversized, underpowered, lump that mustered little more than the OHV 3.4L did, and had the achilles heel of a timing belt and multiple timing belt idler pulleys which were prone to failure. I do like working on 'em though.

you like working on them things? can i ask why?

maven
04-02-2007, 10:08 AM
you like working on them things? can i ask why?

Sure. If youve got the tools they're cake, and they pay great, timing belt and pulleys pays like 11hours, takes me like 3-4 to do it. :D

One of the only engines GM has used in the last 20 years I dint like working on is the 2.8/3.0/3.2 Saab/Opel/Cadillac/Saturn belt drive DOHC V-6

Pick an engine Ill tell you why I like it and whats good about it. :)

ilterzo84
04-02-2007, 09:24 PM
Sure. If youve got the tools they're cake, and they pay great, timing belt and pulleys pays like 11hours, takes me like 3-4 to do it. :D

One of the only engines GM has used in the last 20 years I dint like working on is the 2.8/3.0/3.2 Saab/Opel/Cadillac/Saturn belt drive DOHC V-6

Pick an engine Ill tell you why I like it and whats good about it. :)

3-4 for an 11 hour job, flat rate must be nice. i work in a private shop, hourly pay. 3-4 hours equals 3-4 hours.

ever work on that DOHC V8 they put in the ZR1 (i think it was) Corvette. i've heard that is the hardst GM motor to work on ever built.

also, sorry to hijack the thread.

maven
04-03-2007, 08:37 AM
Yeah the LT5 is a bit of a bitch. have to remove the intake to do almost anything. :D It pays 40 hours to repalce the front cover, oil pan and cam cover gaskets, and they all leak!!

maven
04-03-2007, 08:39 AM
Flat rate is only good if theres enough work, and you can do the work there is. If your getting paid hourly by how long the job takes as opposed to how long your in the building your sorta getting screwed.

rapfiend03
04-03-2007, 01:03 PM
Pick an engine Ill tell you why I like it and whats good about it. :)

ok what about the 454 silverado ss?